TRANSCRIPT
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The Rabbi Daniel Lapin Podcast
Episode: Business As An Occupation: Entering & Prospering with Jim Cockrum
Date: 01/31/24 Length: 01:16:33
Daniel Lapin 0:00
Greetings, Happy Warriors and thank you for being tuned in to the Rabbi Daniel Lapin show where I your rabbi reveal how the world really works. And as always, my job is to reveal how the world really works, and that means that we always have to be cognizant of the 5x we've got to be cognizant of our family life, our financial life, our social life. That's family, finance, friends, and then there is fitness, our relationship with our own bodies. And then there's faith, which is our relationship with the spiritual. And those five areas need to be maintained, and those five areas need to be allowed to interact positively with one another. And when you've got all that down, you've got how the world really works. Now, let me ask you a question, how do you define business? You know, somebody says, Well, I'm a business professional. I'm a business woman, I'm a businessman on I'm in business. What does that mean? Actually? What is being in business really mean? Got it? Well, here is my answer. Being business, in business is serving another human being in exchange for money. That's what being in business is. Now you can serve in some very specialized ways. For instance, if, if you are a plumber, well, then you have a very specific area in which you serve other people. If you have any other form of qualification or credential, you are a bookkeeper, okay, well, then you serve people in that area. You are a drywall installer, okay, so you serve general contractors, and you serve them in a very specific area. But what about people who don't have any specific area? And the answer is that there are ways for you also to get into business and to be in business finding ways to serve other people. I'll give you an example of that. There are people who recognized that they could collaborate with somebody else and make one and one not equal to but equal 37 and the numerous examples of this, there was somebody who was a very good public speaker, and he had a message, but he wasn't very good at getting engagements, And he he worked with speaking agencies. But eventually, a fellow he didn't know contacted him and said, Look, I've been listening to you. I see what you do, and I think that, working together, I could really bring you benefit. And what's more, he said, You don't have to pay me until we start making money. So it's a no lose. Well, it turned out this guy was an excellent marketer, and the two of them built a very successful business. If I told you names, you'd recognize them. A very good chance you'd recognize them. There are situations where any I mean, I'm just talking about things that I know, about people who have been in my orbit, that I've come to know. And there was somebody else who was a very good engineer. He He had a relatively small machine shop where he would make parts on order. And again, somebody who he'd never met before contacted him via a mutual friend, and said, again, you know, I'm a big enthusiast. I'd love, I love what you do, but I could really get you a lot of business. And again, he made him the same kind of offer. And it turned out that that this guy had connections at Boeing in Seattle. And as you know, Boeing doesn't actually make a whole lot of the components in their airplanes. They contract them out to other companies, and then they're all brought together and Boeing assembles them and takes responsibility for the five. Normal product. But in in this case, this, this guy was able to get my friend as subcontracting jobs, you know, where they say we need you to make us a piece of aluminum that has the following exact dimensions, and made it, you know, so on and so forth. And you know. And the deal is, you'll supply us with 200 of these. And and this guy went out and got orders like that, to the point where the my friend, the person with the machine shop, had to hire additional machinists, and he had to expand his premises, and again, the two of them built a big business. To this day, they're still in a very beneficial partnership. And of course, by now, they're very good friends as well. Their families are friends. It's been many, many years already, but that's what I'm talking about, is seeing that, just keeping your eyes open and and there they have been young people, men and women in their late teens and early 20s, who have done this and done it rather than going to any college or any educational institution. And and they have done it very successfully. And so this, I've always found this to be a wonderful example of how moving into business is something that anybody can do. And it's, it's really one of the the wonderful things about business, in the sense that it doesn't need anybody else's permission. If you realize you see an opportunity, you've seen somebody who you could collaborate with, you could connect with that person, and between the two of you, you could do a whole lot more than either of you could do alone. You know, whatever it is, it might be the other way around. You know, maybe, you know, maybe you are the guy who's who's good at I'm just to give you an example, handyman repairs, the sort of thing that you know if, if you find a neighborhood occupied by middle aged and older people, in most cases, you know, people who are empty nesters and and you are a really good handyman. You say there's got to be business here, because everybody who lives in this neighborhood is going to have, you know, a picture that needs hanging, a closet door that needs to be fixed, a washing machine that needs to be connected up all the sort of millions of things that a great handyman can do and and you just might, but, you know, I don't like doing the work. I don't know how to get I mean, I can't go door to door and say, Hi, do you have any handyman work? And then, you know, sometime you meet somebody. Maybe it's somebody who lives in that area and might be looking for themselves to be generating a little extra income, but whatever it is, you go to that person and say, I got a deal. I want to make a suggestion to you. You know, you're a good talker, you're a good connector. I'm not I'm good at fixing things, and we should work together. There are so many different ways that, if you are open to the concept of what business is, that you can do really, really well. And I want to give you three specific things that are great about business. One is that anybody can succeed. You know, anybody can find a way to collaborate with somebody else, and that's and that is a crucial part of starting off in business. What you don't want to do is say, you know, I'm going to start a business in my garage and proceed down that path without any person with whom you are going to set up a collaboration. The key to it is the other way around. This is really an important thing, because there's a very, very high rate of startup businesses that fail, of course, and there are a lot of reasons for that. I don't want to oversimplify it in any way at all, but one of them is a person trying to do it on his own, instead of realizing that a collaboration stands a much higher chance of succeeding. And sure enough, where businesses start off as partnerships, there's a substantially higher likelihood of success than when business start off as an individual, single person doing it by himself, so anybody can succeed. And
Daniel Lapin 9:53
the second thing that's great about business is that it is so related to other areas of your. Life. Success in business is something that leads to success in other areas in life as well. What do I mean here? Well, what I mean is that the principles needed in business. Let me give you an example. Part of running a successful business is learning to do things that need to be done, even if you don't feel like doing them, well, think how valuable that is in a marriage, right? You often have to do things that need to be done, even if you don't particularly, necessarily feel like doing them at that moment, your spouse is counting on it. These are there are many examples of things like that. The ability in business to to defer gratification, the ability in business to deliver what you say you're going to deliver at the time you say you're going to deliver it. And again, how wonderful to able to count on a spouse. You know, when a spouse says, you know, I'll do it by this afternoon, one of the very frustrating things, particularly for women, is living with a man who says, yes, okay, but then nothing ever happens. And it has to become almost a crisis communication, and again, for improvement of marriage, as well as improvement in business, when men realize that when their wife brings up something, it may sound like she's bringing it up in passing, but it needs to be addressed. You either must tell her you're going to ignore her, or you have to tell her you're going to deal with it, or you're going to tell her that it'll be dealt with in a different sort of a way. But again, direct and effective communication. You learn it in business. It's great for other parts of life as well. And then the third one is the business never leaves you at a dead end. If you know, if you are a, you know, a worker in in some sort of company where you don't feel invested as a business participant, the business closes you you're left out on the street. You know, you you may have another avenue, but when you're in business, you're always meeting people, and you're always connecting with people and and I've seen this happen over and over and over again, where somebody has been in business for three or four years and things have been going okay, and then things stop going okay, and he wants to pivot into something else, Because things always change. I did a Lapin lens for we happy warriors members a couple of days ago where I spoke about Kodak. Kodak, in the 70s, actually invented the digital camera, decided to not touch it. They abandoned it, and other people picked up the digital camera, Sony and cannon, and away they ran, leaving Kodak on the road to bankruptcy. They're always the need to be open to change, the need to be aware of things on the horizon again, for business and for life, really, really important. But you're meeting always. You're meeting so many people I don't I can't think of how many people this has happened to, and anybody in business will will resonate with us, where somebody says, well, that's really interesting, by the way. You know, if you ever embark on something else, be back in touch with me. I'd be interested in in working with your talking with you. And so when, when things, when one avenue closes in business. If you've been effective in business, you right away have a half a dozen names in your contact list of people who said, be in touch with me. You know, they won't all work out, but somebody will. And so business leaves you without a dead end of any kind, which is quite wonderful. And I want to also, before I go to the main body of today's show, I want to tell you about the we happy warriors membership. In case you have not yet joined our community of we happy warriors. Well, one of the benefits, there are many benefits, but one of them is that every week, I do a special bonus podcast on a topic that I'm not necessarily going to speak about in public, but I do speak about to the happy warrior community. And so for instance, this week, the bonus for members is going to be what women who want to get married should never talk about. That's right, because you may be a woman who wants to get married, but more likely, you may know somebody who does, and you may be in a position to be helpful to somebody in that category or. Might be a man in that, in that process, and you might be realizing something really important again, what I'm going to discuss, specifically for happy warriors, the bonus podcast, and what women should never talk about, what women are wanting to be married should never talk about, and I'll be explaining all of that. Okay, so what we're going to do is we're going to go to an interview I conducted with Jim Cockrum, who is somebody who is escorted a sound, not a thou, 1000s up to, I think maybe 10,000 people into the wonderful world of business. And he, he and I share many, many different interests, but this a deep reverence for the field of business is something we do share. So I want us to talk with Jim Cockrum. We're going to do that, and then when we come back, I will wrap up by telling you about three entities. Three entities, okay, that show the difference between moving from good to great. And yes, I know it's a Jim Collins book, but, but to really excel at what you do, what's the point of it? How do you do it? I'm going to explain that just as soon as we come back. So let's go straight to Jim Cockrum, who is going to be a guest on today's interview. Well, happy warriors, today is a very enjoyable opportunity for me, my dear friend, Jim Cockrum is our guest, and it's been a number of years we've been together, Jim, and now we're doing something together in a very constructive and exciting kind of a way, but, first of All, for the one or two people who've recently immigrated from out of Mongolia, just introduce yourself and and let people know a little bit about your extraordinary background in online marketing.
Jim Cockrum 17:14
Well, you know, I heard, I've heard you interviewed a good number of times, and I adopted something to my own pattern here that I learned from you. I'm not going to talk a lot about myself. I want to provide maximum value to the listeners today. And I heard you do that one time, and I thought that's brilliant. You know, everyone loves to talk about themselves, but I want to provide maximum value for your listeners today, so in the briefest possible fashion, follower of God love my wife for 30 years, five kids, beautiful grandson playing in the other room behind me right now. We're babysitting, right? You couldn't be more blessed using the internet creatively to build multiple income streams and helping other people do the same thing. That's what I do. That's who I am. I consider this my mission, my calling, and we've had a reasonable degree of success, and I counted among one of the greatest honors of my career, to have developed a friendship with you and Susan, to have had you at our event multiple times. Yes, you've become a dear, respected and honored friend in our community, and you've spoken a lot of wisdom, very specific wisdom, into my business over the years that has truly transformed the way we do things. And so that's enough of an introduction for me to feel like I'm serving the community of your listeners, and I am a fan. I am a consumer. I'm not kidding when I say I've listened to every podcast you've put out, and I've read most of your material as well reference it frequently, so I'm a little bit, I don't know, nervous. It's surreal for me because I'm a little disappointed, because this is an episode I don't get to hear because I've already done it. Yeah, right,
Daniel Lapin 18:57
so here's how we come to be together right now on this one. So over the years, I have been doing a certain amount of life coaching. I say a certain amount because for the most part, I try to serve no more than three clients at a time, just because it's it's enormously time consuming, and it is also intellectually and emotionally consuming, because One invariably gets intricately enmeshed in the challenges that one's clients face, and and that means that even when one is doing other things, these questions are churning through one's mind. And so I think it was a wise decision I made a while back to to. Keep it down to three clients at a time, and with very few exceptions, that's what I've done, and the the core to it has been essentially what later became the 5f principles laid out in our book, the holistic you integrating.
Jim Cockrum 20:23
Yeah, I've got my copy right here for those watching, for those listening, your
Daniel Lapin 20:27
family never far away, friendships, faith and fitness, the five yes and and it's turned out to be extremely effective, just because it is so real that the different crucial zones in one's life do interact with one another. And it's, you know, I I've spoken to people, and I'm sure you have as well, and even though they're talking to move about their marriage. I can tell them what's going on in their business, because when one is accustomed to understanding the interconnection, it becomes very evident indeed and so. So then what happened, if I remember correctly, is, I think you approached me and we were talking about this, or I may have approached you for some advice. I don't remember which way it was, but, but we ended up talking about this and and I realized that using some of your strategies and letting you coach me on how some of this can be more effectively transmitted there. There was a lot of good that could come out of it for a lot of people. And so that's how we started talking and and the result is that we have put together, and it's on the we happy warriors website. There's a page we happy warriors.com/ 5fcoaching, where, and here, Jim, let me toss it to you to explain why anybody might want to go to that website?
Jim Cockrum 22:26
Yeah, we started the conversation. I believe I may have initiated it. I don't remember. It's been quite a while back. We've had several very productive calls with Susan as well, and just brainstorming. And here's as a consumer and a fan of the content you've created, and as someone who has always said, Okay, I want more. What else is there? And I see the man I know you've, you've attended our live events, and this is me answering your question, right? You've attended our live events, and we've had conversations with people kind of swirling around and this, this exciting energy of a live event and said, what is missing in the Lapin arena that I could help bring to the table, and based on some of the models that we've used in our community, for example, I've got 60 coaches on my team, right? And these are people that I pour into their lives. I work directly with them. I don't work so much with the end students as much anymore. The Ascension of leadership has taken me to where I'm dealing with the team leaders. Right? Your organization doesn't have a lot of that from my perception. We had some conversations like, could we build some of that into what you have? Because there's some incredible wisdom that can be dispersed down into qualified leaders and educators or coaches who say, You know what? I understand the Lapin 5f, faith, family, friendship, fitness, finance. I think I could coach that. I think I could become qualified to help others without Rabbi Lapin and Susan happen to be in the room, you know, and we look at other prominent leaders, you know, they've, they've built these organizations where people are trained under their philosophies. You know, John Maxwell comes to mind those sorts of things, like, there's no reason why Rabbi Daniel Lapin shouldn't have something like that. So we're in the process of launching that, and that's what the website you alluded to, we happy warriors.com/ 5f coaching. It's the number five, the letter F coaching. And we're going to do a series of free webinars where you and I are going to talk with Susan as well, maybe some surprise guests. What it means to to integrate these qualities into your life, one, but also, what does it mean to maybe step into a role where you can become a coach who's certified in the 5f philosophy and as as mentioned and spelled out so well in the holistic you, I'm holding up my copy of the book again, I always listen to your show. I don't, admittedly, don't ever watch the YouTube videos. I. Just listen on Mount running or whatever, but it's a must read book. I've got my signed copy here that will really help unpack the foundational concepts of what we're trying to do here. But if you're ready to say, All right, I wouldn't mind teaching others. I might be qualified to teach others. I've always wanted to have a coaching business. I wouldn't mind doing it under the brand of what the lapins have built. That's what I'm helping, doing my best to help you guys build out Rabbi Lapin and along with the help of Susan and and I'm excited for it that it's a project we've worked on quite a bit, and it starts off, like I said, with just some free webinars and kind of help filter through. You know, who is this for and just creating some good content together, I'm excited to create content with you that's that's a real pleasure for me. If that's all it ends up being, hey, that's great. What
Daniel Lapin 25:48
I like about it is that, whilst I'm sure that it can be satisfying to coach people in tennis or in in competitive driving you know, or or some you know, basketball, or anything else. I'm sure it can be satisfying to to help people you know in those areas. What's so rewarding to me personally about helping working with people to improve their finances is because you can be, and I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular, but you can be a top seeded tennis pro and be a really horrible human being, absolutely horrible person, and that is very much rarer in the world of business. Now, people say, Oh, what are you talking about? They're horrible. Well, wait a second, and here's how that works, at the margins of the bell curve, among the super successful, and most conspicuously among those whose success was sudden and quick, not the Warren Buffets of the world who's been building Berkshire Hathaway for 50 plus years. But yes, so at that end, there are going to be some immature, nasty, horrible people and and then at the other end of the extremely unsuccessful end. And yes, I do see this. There are people who have come to me, and, you know, I've done what I think any professional does. I've done an evaluation, and I've said, Look, I don't think I can help you. I'm not the right person. And in general, this would be largely because they have so much restorative work to do. There is so much wrong that it it's more than I can deliver. And so down at that. And yeah, there are people who are struggling, who see themselves as being in business. They're not really, but they see themselves and they get embittered and unpleasant. But if you leave aside those two ends, the upper end and the lowest end. And if you look at the vast body of the bell curve where most of us reside, you know, put it in its simplest terms, the average store owner says, Have a good day when a customer walks out the store. Okay, that that sums it up and and so the the interface between doing well in business and doing well in other parts of your life is is so real and so powerful and so compelling that it becomes life transformative. Let me throw out one more example that I'd love to hear you comment on, and that is, being a good business professional makes you more likely to be a good spouse as well. Really, what are those two things got to do with one another? I'll tell you very often in business, one of the things you have to do is something that you don't feel like doing. You're supposed to do it. It needs to be done. You are the one who has to do it, and it has to be done. Now, and you don't want to be the one to do it. You don't want to do it at all. You certainly don't want to do it now, but you go ahead and make yourself do it anyways. And as you progress in your business career, you become better and better at that to the point where it happens more and more infrequently that you run up against something. I don't want to do this. Well, you know what in a marriage could be more common than situations where you think to yourself, you know? I I don't want to do this. My wife says, Do you want to have supper at home tonight, or should we go out for supper? And I want to say I really don't care. Whatever you decide is fine. And then in the nick of time, I realize that she doesn't want a decision. She wants a communication and the business training kicks in, and I say, let's let's discuss it. Let's talk about the and that's a whole different game. The question of optimism, Jim and optimism is crucial in business. And we speak about ways we teach people how to build optimism. It is very, very difficult to make the next phone call or knock on the next door if you can't summon up reserves of optimism. Imagine, you know, you and I are blessed, but there are people who are married to pessimists. It's draining, absolutely, absolutely draining. And so you know just two, two examples of where you know that if you are becoming better at business, you're also developing the attributes to make yourself better at marriage and obviously vice versa, back backwards to the
Jim Cockrum 32:02
five F's all connect. And just to borrow a very real illustration from my from the way we set up our business, I heard you say many years ago a different version of the same thing you're saying now, which is, if the only thing I know about you, I don't know if you went to college or not, I don't know what your economic background is. Certainly don't know your maybe even not so much about your worldview. I don't know a lot about you, but I know that you've built a profitable business that is sustained with happy customers over a significant period of time. That's all I know. That's one of the safest bets you can make. And I even recall some studies that you did looking at comparing small business owners to other professional demographics, doctors, even clergy, college professors. Yes, who among us is the least likely to be a problem, commit a felony, create some it's the business owners. Yes, if that's all I know about you, Rabbi Lapin, that's it. I've built my whole organization around this. I don't have to sit down with lengthy interviews. Some of the people that I've built incredible, incredible organization with. They they represent my name in a significant way in front of many people, and they'll coach and they'll do strategy sessions. The only thing I know about that person is they've got a teacher's heart. I do look for that, but you've got to have that to be to lead in business, and they've built a successful business that's sustained over a significant period of time. That's all I need to know. If I know about that, then I don't a five minute conversation and I turn them loose like, yes, you can represent us all day, every day. Welcome to the team, right? That's just one illustration of what you're talking about. And I know that person is also it's rare exception that they aren't also because of the self sacrifice that's required, because of the patience, the delayed gratification with our culture doesn't teach that anywhere. As a business owner, you got to have that. I mean, if what is investing, if not delaying gratification, right? Business owners invest constantly, their time, their effort, their energy, their money. Those things apply to building a beautiful marriage. Of course, they do. So these, these 5f start to connect in these unexpected ways that creates this, this amazing pattern that you can build a very robust organization on. And you're what you really doing is building a beautiful life. That's the holistic. Is the word you use in the title of your book, right? There's nothing more holistic than applying and interlinking these concepts. So, yeah, hopefully that answers your question. But, I mean, I've put a lot of faith in and applied in real world scenarios, these things that I've learned. You've made the Bible very practical for me, is what you've done. You know, you're an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, I'm an evangelical Christian, but you've made the Bible come to life in ways that no pastor I've ever sat under has done some of these Old Testament principles. This, you know, you call it the the world's longest longitudinal study of human behavior, right? And applying principles to people group like, there's there's gold there guys. So I shout it from the mouth. Types in our group all the time, and I even drive my family a little crazy, sometimes with some of these principles, but it's brought the Word of God to life for me.
Daniel Lapin 35:09
Well, you know, it's, it's very, very obvious on a geopolitical level, in the sense that, you know, how many Australians jump into tiny little boats and try and row across the straits to get to Indonesia. You know how many people living in England try and cross the English Channel to move to France? Or how many people in living in on the French Riviera get in little boats to try and reach the coasts of North Africa? And the answer that separates what we call the west from the rest is the biblical foundation of these societies, and it's not hard to understand and to analyze just how it is that the underlying biblical principles are responsible For these societies becoming engines of prosperity, bastions of freedom. It's not hard to see
Jim Cockrum 36:25
you're hitting on a concept that got me hooked with your content, or initially, I heard Dave Ramsey mention you in passing, and I thought, What a fascinating concept. And I picked up on your books, thou shalt prosper. And you open that book by basically saying you've you know this is be paraphrasing, but you have to answer what it is that has set apart this tiny little fraction of our population, the Jews, represent less than 1% in pretty much every culture they're in, unless you're going to Israel, right? There's this tiny little people group that tends to far excel in you know, they make up 1% of the population, they're 15% of the millionaires, they're 1% of the population, they're 25% of the comedians. They're 1% of the population, they're, you know, 18% of this. How does this people group do it? What is going on? And you eliminate all the racist, ridiculous explanations, and there's only one conclusion left. There's only one possible answer, the People of the Book, we're on to something right in you can adapt these principles, I say, all the time, regardless of world view. You can adapt these principles into your life and benefit from them. And
Daniel Lapin 37:34
you see these, these biblical principles, coming through Christianity as well, because it is, whether it's Australia or England or France or any of the other European countries, it is essentially the lingering vestiges of Christianity that still give them what, what? What propels them forward economically. And you know, people, people, very often, tend to dismiss that idea. You know, come on, how? You know, primitive, ancient document, you know, with, with obsolete stories about a man and putting animals on a boat, you know, how on a you know, how does this impact the economic viability of a society? And it's not that hard to go through the foundational ideas that did take root in Christian countries that have their origins in the Hebrew text, obviously, but, but nonetheless, which, which really played a huge role. And I mean, just at its at its absolute simplest, you know, at its foundational I can't go any more basic than this. There's so much more to talk about when we get into the deeper and more complicated areas, but just the idea that in the beginning, God created heaven and earth. That's not just narrative. That's the equivalent of me not sure where I lost my phone and and I asked somebody to help me look for it. And they say, well, where on the planet could it be? And I say, Well, the good news is, it's in the city somewhere. Can you do any better than that? I said, Well, actually, I can tell you it's in this house. And finally, and I can tell you, it's either this room or that room, I've totally changed the probability of a successful outcome, because there is no reason for anybody to embark optimistically on a search for my missing phone if the field of search is limitless. And similarly, I would say that once I know that God created heaven and earth, well, then I expect there to be a pattern, a unifying structure in it all. And this is something even Albert Einstein, towards the end of his life, understood. He spoke about searching for the unified field theory because he was puzzled as to why it is that different forces, like magnetic and electrostatic and others seem to behave in exactly the same way, although they're not in any way related. One embarks on a challenge in a different way, if one has an idea of where one should be searching.
Jim Cockrum 40:49
Yeah, let me take a stab at putting that in my own words. As a consumer of your content, every bit in this is the way I would paraphrase what you just said, and I've played it in my own life. The God who created physics and the laws of gravity and the sunrise and the sunset and these precise instruments that the governors of our daily life, the same God that created those those mathematical laws, has created spiritual laws as well. Should it be any surprise? Yes, and to the degree that you understand them, as you say all the time, the more the world changes, the more you need to embrace and understand the things that never change and apply them to your life. The things that never change are God's nature, the the natural laws governing male female relationships. Those are every bit as much as and you can pretend it's not there, just like you can pretend Gravity's not there, but it's to your own detriment, right? That's, that's the way I think of it. That's why I've simplified it in my mind. So the God who created physics created the laws of relationships, and it's every much as valuable to explore those and understand those. So friendships and family, there's laws there, there's rules there. There's not a whole lot new to learn there. Once you dig into the to the, the author of the book, right?
Daniel Lapin 42:05
Also, you know the secret of optimism. Its importance can't, can't be over stressed in business. But you know, how do you get optimism? Well, one of the areas, it seems, is very, very interesting. But you know, what is the the the number one correlation for people who have children optimism, and that's why it is that when you talk to people who decided to have no children, they always give you an answer which has as its unwritten text, I'm a pessimist. Yes. I think the world is going to hell. I think the environment is being destroyed. I think that climate change is going to burn us all up. So why would I want to bring children into the world? And so you know, every single economic incentive in every country, from Sweden to Hungary to the United States, every attempt to improve fertility demographics by means of economic incentive fails because you are actually insulting mothers by suggesting that it's all about money, the glorious mission of motherhood, it's not about money. It's something bigger than that, and it does have something to do with a sense of cosmic optimism. Well, once again, the Bible serves as a trigger of optimism. It's extraordinary, but it just does so this and a myriad of other reasons are why countries that are shaped by Judeo, Christian bible thinking do well economically, and why it makes perfect sense to say, well, if it works so well for countries, why wouldn't it work for individuals or families or neighborhoods or businesses? And of course, it does.
Jim Cockrum 44:09
Can I ask you, have you been to the Museum of the Bible in Washington, DC, several
Daniel Lapin 44:13
times? I'm a huge fan of it. I can't thank the Green family enough for making it a reality. What
Jim Cockrum 44:19
an incredible high tech experience, and they've done it the right way. And one I have the honor of doing a tour there with. I don't remember the gentleman's name, it's been several years ago. He was, he was the president of operations there, and just gave us a quick whirlwind tour. But the last room we ended up in, maybe you recall this book, and I'm going to make a point that ties to what you just said. I think that, I think the listeners will enjoy this as well. I've had in my mind since seeing that room. And it was a room where they showed all the people groups that had adopted the Bible into their language, and all the people groups that hadn't. Did you visit that room? And they had, like shelves, right? And I had, I had in my mind at that moment, thanks to your training. Mean, like I would love to see superimposed over these countries, the economic strength of those nations, based on the level of adaptation of biblical principles. The correlation there would have to be almost undeniable, and you could just tell at a quick glance you're looking at, you know, the European nations, you know, for the most part, very biblically founded and grounded in the United States, of course, you know, but
Daniel Lapin 45:28
when Lee Kuan Yew you turn similar Singapore into a tiger, again, it was adaptation of these principles, right? The
Jim Cockrum 45:37
other oriented. The other oriented is a strange thing. What's this altruism? Where'd that come from? How do you explain that as a as an evolutionist, like where's that come from? Giving of yourself to the benefit of even strangers to your own detriment, like that. That's a spiritual thing. That's a heavy spiritual thing that can't be explained by the ways, and that's what we bring to a culture. Say, Hey, make others more important than self. Well, why would I do that? Because you're gonna be blessed. That doesn't make any sense. Trust me, that's how God made it. Gravity doesn't make any sense either, until you've run into it a few times, right, right? So those principles applied to cultures, yeah? So I would, doesn't that sound like a cool display, like the degree that the Bible has been integrated into a culture and more financial success and stability someone needs to and,
Daniel Lapin 46:24
and, you know, the Green family are the creators of the business called Hobby Lobby, right, of course. And, and so there again. You know, there are so many happy examples of Biblically sculpted families who do really well in business. And it just, it just makes, it makes all the sense in the world.
Jim Cockrum 46:49
Absolutely agree, and we've benefited tremendously. And I've got multiple practical examples from our community of this applied. So let me give you an example, if you don't mind, Rabbi Lapin. I was excited to share this because one of the things that I teach, one of the business strategies we teach, we teach people how to sell online, Amazon, that sort of thing, like third party sellers, eBay, most people are familiar with. So that business model, really, you're selling random items to strangers who you may never interact with, right? And I've heard you say many times, and this is my adapt, adaptation of of a lesson I learned from you early on that really set me on fire for for being a fan of your content. It was something like this, the definition of a transaction in Hebrew. And this is, again, my interpretation. So correct me and help me shape it. If I miss this, but it's the beginning of a mutually beneficial lifelong relationship, right? It's what it's supposed to be. You know, you're doing business the right way. If, as the transactions continue, the relationship strengthens. In other words, well, if you're selling random things to people all over the world, it kind of gets disconnected, like, Who is this customer of mine? Who is this person? So one of the things we train is we have a lot of homeschool families and families that do this together, and you're selling random things to strangers. Well, here's what we're going to do. These are very real people, very real families receiving these items we sell. So your job, little five year old Timmy, is to put a sticker on the box, so when that person opens the box, they see a happy or draw Happy, happy face on the box, because other people are going to see in touch. So you start to mentally imagine and see the other people who are impacted by your actions. It's not just a random widget that's going to help our family make an extra $12 when it sells. This is something that's going to pass through several hands, and we have a chance to impact all those lives, and ultimately, the person who bought it is going to be better off for having received it. How do we know? Because they were willing to pay for it. So you have a chance to talk through those lessons with your kids and ingrain the other orientedness, even when you're selling random widgets to strangers, right? So we emphasize that, and the families that say, come back to us and say, our kids love it. You know, they can look at a pile of toys in the corner and know that it's not theirs. We're selling those to other kids. And they can imagine those kids in their mind, and they can imagine the benefits those families will receive from those toys a birthday party. You know, someone's worked hard and saved and they finally get to buy this toy. We can build those scenarios to help them connect, even though you may not actually ever meet that person, right? That's one of the ways I've applied some of the lessons in a very tangible way to even selling random widgets to strangers.
Daniel Lapin 49:30
Jim, as as you began to build your organization, and you're hundreds and hundreds of people strong at the moment, do you have many instances, or only a few of people who had previous occupations which they abandoned and turned away from in all. Order to begin new careers in internet marketing,
Jim Cockrum 50:06
you have, I'm going to answer with a resource. Okay, it is The Gathering Storm, right? The Noah's Ark, right? We live in, arguably, from my perspective, although we're getting a bit of a reprieve with some recent election results. We live in a time of cultural and moral decline, undeniable. So a good Rabbi friend of mine taught me in that curriculum that when you find yourself in a time of multi of cultural and moral decline, and is a culture, what do you do? How do you conduct your affairs. What changes do you make? One of the changes that suggested and in the good book based on the story of Noah's Ark, right, The Gathering Storm. That's the right name of that curriculum, okay, good is you get your family close and you build something together. And I so one of the things that we do, and not everyone on my leadership team is on board with this, as I am, a good number of us are, however, that one of the things I think we've been doing is saving marriage, is saving families, but getting them under the same roof. Now, maybe dad still goes off to his corporate career, but then this is a side thing. Maybe they both have to work, and this is something they're trying to build their dreams on. But we have seen a good number of people leave medical careers, professional college professors and and all kinds of other careers to say, You know what? I want to be home. I want a flexible schedule. I want to build my own business. I want to do something that I can bring my kids into. And you've been to our events. I mean, you see little kids with 10 year olds with business cards, like, what's that about? Right? Homeschool families, so we're catering to that and encourage
Daniel Lapin 51:42
events, by the way, are about the only time where I I got my come up and swear by my you when you know when I'm usually at events, and people often have their children there and and I'm not just talking about business events. I mean even in community events. Sure, you know, I hope it's not more obnoxious than absolutely necessary. But I always say to these kids, you know, whether the kids seven years old or 11 or 12, whatever, they always tell them, and what do you do? And they, you know, usually look back at me with puzzlements, and I said, Well, don't you, don't you go to work. Don't you have any work. And And invariably, and I aroused the ire of some family members a little while ago, because the children said, No, we go to school. And I said, What a dreadful waste of time. Who forces you to do that? And the parental response was, was questionable. But the funny thing is, at your event, I stopped doing that because every kid had a really good answer of what they were doing. They've
Jim Cockrum 53:00
got business cards services they provided. It blows me away as well. But, but we were built. We were built for this. What was the book? I'm going to try to remember the title, and maybe you can help me with the author, weapons of mass instruction. Gato.
Daniel Lapin 53:17
Oh yeah. John Taylor, what's his John Taylor got her Yes, wonderful. One of
Jim Cockrum 53:24
the things he talks about in there, just tying back to what you just said, they actually started, you know, after the child labor laws came into play, they went and they surveyed the boys and like, Okay, if you could have it either way, get back to work, make some money, help build a future for your family and for your future, or sit behind a desk watch someone draw on a chalkboard and then take a test based overwhelmingly at any age, especially the boys, can I please go back to work? Can I please go build a business? Can I please get back out into right? And I'm not making you know, I'm not looking to send us down a rabbit hole here, but the greatest pleasure I derive in life is being able to provide and protect for my family, and then to be able to to stretch that circle out one more and help other families do the same thing. I mean, it's incredibly rewarding, and I learned the Hebrew principle from you the the different levels of giving, right? I won't tell all eight of them, but the highest form of giving is giving in such a way that you make someone self sufficient and a giver themself. I mean, it's one thing to toss a few coins to a guy on the street so he can buy a sandwich so he'll leave you alone. I mean, that's the lowest level of giving. And then you get up to the highest level. It's, it's doing the stuff that you do. It's doing the stuff that I helping you become self sufficient so you become a giver yourself. I want to give people that it's bigger than just teaching a man to fish. It's it's the way you think, it's the way you see the world. It's the abundance mindset that leads to gratitude, that leads to optimism, right? You. What a gift we get to do that.
Daniel Lapin 55:04
So what do we, you know, what are we saying to to people in terms of of coaching that you you can also, you can move into this area of activity, financially and emotionally fulfilling area.
Jim Cockrum 55:26
Well, you know, what I think we're looking for is people will know it. This is gonna either gonna resonate with you or it's not. If you think we're a couple crazy dudes talking about craziness right now, this probably isn't for you. Keep listening, though, because you'll come around eventually. Truth has a way of floating eventually. We're seeing a lot of that in our culture right now, where, like the LA, wildfires are great. It's one thing to say, well, deforestation is mean to the animals. Well, just wait till there's a fire, then we all know deforestation might have been a better idea. You know, reality tends to float. Truth tends to float. Eventually, keep listening. But the people that this is for are going to say, you know, I I can imagine a life where, along with whatever else I'm doing, I'm coaching and training a handful of people on these principles, and I'm helping them in the the 5f areas, faith, family, friendship, fitness, finance. I'm helping them under the close watchful eye of Susan and Rabbi Lapin and and they're going to be there with me as a resource. But I want to launch a business doing this, you know, simply call it Life Coaching. You know, I the holistic coaching that you guys are offering and that we're going to help shape out. And then, based on the experiences that I've had, you know, I've been doing e commerce coaching for over 20 years. We've coached nearly 10,000 people. Rabbi Lapin, we've been doing it longer than anyone that I know of. So the structure of what it looks like to build a coaching organization, and we've been doing that a while. I can do that in my sleep now, building a team if necessary. So we start to connect these dots. And so the idea is, again, to bring some clarity to this concept, we happy warriors.com/ 5f coaching. There'll be a link, I'm sure in your notes, is, let's just talk to some people about these concepts. Let's filter through we've got a little survey that people can fill out. It's already on that page. If you want to get ahead of the curve and fill it out. Find a handful. We've set a handful, 510, maybe a few more, a reasonable amount that you can work with. I'll be working with them. Let's help them build a coaching business based on these principles. Let's see who this resonates with. Yeah, we're looking for a handful of people. Because again, you know one thing that you you said to me, and I'm gonna in you. You can edit this out if you want to, but you've been transparent with me on a handful of occasions, at events, and we've had some very, very good conversations. And you said, Jim, you know, one of the things I think we've missed and building the organization the way we have over the years is we just, I don't have that, that core group that is like, mini me's almost of like taking the ball and running with it further than I can, and I've done that and very intentionally, kind of almost stepped back out of the spotlight and let them run the show, and I'm just there to learn and help shape and make sure we stay within the guiding principles. So I love to see you stepping into that, and as a consumer of your content and a fan of what you guys have done, I want to be one of those people. So when you tap me to say, Hey, how about you? Help us lead this effort, Sign me up. Let's go. Because the quality of those people, those individuals that make it through this process, there's going to be some incredible people to hang out with and to learn from and to mastermind and network with so, so that's my vision for this. I think that's shared with you and Susan, but I'd love to hear from you, like, what, what's your vision for this group? And as you've had time to talk it over with Susan, and where would you like to see it go? And I want it to be a blessing for you as well, I
Daniel Lapin 58:57
think to, first of all, to help people overcome the sometimes seemingly insurmountable mental obstacle of, you know, I can't believe anybody is actually going to Pay me for coaching. Yeah, and, you know, we all get taught humility, and there is also a healthy dose of self doubt. And when you couple them together, you can very often get this obstacle that says, mean, I can see why this might be good for some people, but there's no way it can work for me. So helping bust through that is something I'm passionate about. It's it's obviously not easy, and you've been doing that, though you've been doing that with people for decades, really, haven't you?
Jim Cockrum 59:59
Well, based on. No small part on the training and the things that I've learned from you. You know, if one of the Hebrew principles that I can almost like you, imagine someone standing up and saying, okay, it finally makes sense, right? Like I've done that so many times, I feel like I'm interrupting the crowd, like, oh, I needed that, that con, the Hebrew concept of your last name reflecting your occupation. Marketing is built right in with people says, you know, who are you? It's in my name. This is who I. I'm Wasserman, I'm Silverstein. I'm, you know, this is who I, this is what I do. It's a Hebrew biblical principle. So you begin to take on an identity. See one of the, perhaps the biggest favor that you've done, when it's all said and done and we're like, Okay, what did this guy? What did he truly accomplish? Is he pushed back against the rabbi Lapin. You've done this. You've pushed back against this narrative that says business is somehow lacking in virtue. I listened to a podcast episode just today, they mentioned your name, actually, and maybe we can talk offline about who it was. I don't want to call anyone out. It's names that everyone recognized. It's popular podcast, and they brought your name up as a counterpoint, because they were kind of going back and forth on this is, can business be done ethically? What's it mean to have a business with a purpose, instead of just a business seeking profit? And I wanted to just scream and shake my screen like guys. Listen, listen, if you're doing transactions in such a way that it's building a mutually beneficial relationship, be proud of that. Yes, there's no other cause or purpose bigger than providing a valuable service that enhances a relationship, right? So if you've got something you're that proud of and you want to share it with others. Be bold. Be proud. There's nothing more virtuous. I think it's a Samuel Johnson quote you introduced me to and this is me paraphrasing it, but it basically says something like, seldom is a man more virtuously engaged than in the pursuit of profit of his own business. Until you can come to terms with that, you're going to struggle. Going to struggle with business. But once you do, be proud, put your name on it, you've got a lot of value to share against this culture that's telling us profit is bad and businesses have to give back before they can be virtuous. That's all these negative, toxic messages. You got to step out of that cloud. So that's what I say. That's one of the most valuable things you've done, and that's the mindset, if you want to start getting clients, you've got to get yourself there. How's that? I'm passionate about this stuff? No,
Daniel Lapin 1:02:33
I am too and and I think we'll find that that a lot of people are,
Jim Cockrum 1:02:38
I know that the happy warriors in your community, or some incredible people have had a chance
Daniel Lapin 1:02:44
to get high level of passion about it, because you
Jim Cockrum 1:02:47
feel like you've got the solution that people are looking for and that that'll fire you up for sure. Well,
Daniel Lapin 1:02:53
yeah, yeah, yeah, Jim, I'm interested in your comment earlier, you said that recent events alluding, of course, to the November 2024, election, that the slide down the slippery slope To ultimately decadence and oblivion seems to have been, if not halted, certainly slowed, reprieve, perhaps a reprieve. Yeah, yeah. Are you feeling
Jim Cockrum 1:03:29
that strongly? Well, you know what this is, my you, you don't, toot your own horn, enough, my friend, you were the first person that I heard in any kind of public setting back in 2015 and you've, you've mentioned it a couple times, but you are by far the earliest to say this Trump guy that everyone's making fun of, and you don't have to. I mean, you can the video tapes out there.
Daniel Lapin 1:03:52
Yeah. Everybody was like, that is true. I use this clown.
Jim Cockrum 1:03:54
And you said at the time, this is the guy that can punch back. Yeah, it's sad that our culture is at a place where we need someone to punch back to win the presidency, but that's where we are, because the the progressive agenda is punching hard, and you can't go in and be Mr. Nice Guy and Mr. Soft. I would never win. I'm too subtle. I'm too you know, I don't want to offend Trump will punch back. And you called it. You said this guy is, is had a good chance. I think he's gonna probably win this thing well before anyone else. And the only other person that I had in my life that was saying those kind of things was my wife, and I thought you both were a little crazy, but interesting theory. Guys, yeah, what about this Jeb Bush guy? What about, you know, I think these guys got a better shot. No, so here we are in the second term. I had the good fortune a few weeks ago. Oh, you went to mar a Lago. You had the invitation as well, but weren't able to make it. But, yeah, didn't get to meet Trump, you know, so, ah, but we were there, and it was, it was a gathering of of Orthodox Jewish and there were rabbis that. Are there? What? What's the Senate called in Israel? What's it called? The witch? Knesset, what's the how do you pronounce that? Like the Jewish?
Daniel Lapin 1:05:09
Oh, the the parliament in Israel, Parliament? Knesset.
Jim Cockrum 1:05:12
Knesset, thank you. So several members of they were there as well, along with a bunch of us crazy evangelical Christians. It was just amazing time of prayer for Israel and thanking God that we had a very pro Israel president in place. And I'm all about that. I've taught classes at our church. You know what Christians should feel, how they how they should believe and think about Israel and see it through a scriptural lens. And so, yeah, I believe we are in a time of reprieve. I believe it's God favor, God's favor and blessing that we're in a time, you know, and it's not so much for me about Trump as a man. I'm not that impressed all the time, just be honest. But how he and this is another rabbi Lapin wisdom moment. And when I talk about the man, this is what I always say, which neighbor would you rather have? Yeah, would you rather have the neighbor that when you're not looking kicks the dog and, you know, it says mean things, but he does the right thing. Ultimately, in the end, like, if your house has a problem, he's going to fix it while you're on vacation. So that guy's grumpy, he's mean, he's kind of nasty, says things that aren't appropriate, but in the end, he does the right thing, or the person who just schmoozes and says all the nice right things and brings you cookies, but talking the whole neighborhood about how horrible of a person you are and ultimately does the wrong thing given the opportunity to help you, I want the guy that helps me. I want the guy that votes pro life. I want the guy that ultimately appoints good, responsible people. Yeah, right. Trump himself. How I feel about him is almost irrelevant. What are the results? What are the things that he's doing, right? Yeah. So, yeah, that's my take on it, and I've heard you address it in different settings, and I get myself in trouble a little bit every time, and there's people on my team who feel differently than I do, and that's, that's the world we live in. But yeah, I feel like we're
Daniel Lapin 1:07:00
here. We are the beginning of 2025 and you and I are going to be working with a number of people over the next few months who are going to be starting new business enterprises. How do you feel about starting a new business now under a Trump administration, or what starting a new business might have been like had it now been under a Harris administration,
Jim Cockrum 1:07:29
right there, it's a night and day different. You talked about the optimism, the hope for the future, right they there's people throwing around, you know, the golden age of America. We're hearing talk of the end of income tax like that is a that is such an incredible as a business owner, the opportunity for me to deploy more of my resources without throwing them into this machine that basically burns them in the wind, right? Which there's there's very limited, and I'm a limited, small government guy, so don't get me started. We won't go down that rabbit hole. But there's rabbit hole, but there's very few constitutional purposes of the federal government. It's gotten so blown up, and it's taken such a huge piece of every pie that I make. It's it's hard we start to pull back and give me more of those resources and let me make the decisions. But how I can grow and expand, serve more people, hire more people, grow my business without taxation being the biggest check I have to write every month. Look out. So yeah, the business environment, I say all the time. I said it today on a separate podcast before this one, if you had to pick a time to be alive in all of human history where the goal was to you wanted to land in that time and build a successful, profitable business, minimum risks and maximum odds of out of a positive outcome. Where would you want to be now is a pretty good time. Right now, I would argue, is probably the best. There's been a few really other good ones. But with the technology we have now, right resources and the elimination of risk from the process, endeavor that you and I are taking right now to launch this coaching program. What's our total capital we've put at risk a few conversations? Yeah, right. And this could turn into something amazing, beautiful, and if it doesn't, we've helped a few friends go further faster on a great path, right? So those kind of opportunities are there because of technology. So yeah, I love the environment, business environment. I think, I think we're going to see a beautiful four years of economic prosperity and success in business. Yeah. How do you feel to bounce the question back to you? Would you echo this enemy exactly
Daniel Lapin 1:09:29
the fact, I think you know, we never know what things will look like in four years time or eight years time. But right now, there's no reason to tarry, no reason to to procrastinate, and now is definitely the time to start an enterprise.
Jim Cockrum 1:09:47
I would completely agree. Yeah, there's the there's a mood, there's an error that's that's very conducive. It reminds me a lot of when Reagan came. You know, federal taxes got slashed. Yes, tax rates lowered in. And the the economy exploded, right? The government actually took in more money than it ever had, with lower tax rates than we had in decades. How does that work? Well, the economy exploded. Yeah, sure.
Daniel Lapin 1:10:12
Beautiful, Jim, there's there's always so much more to talk about than there is time, but fortunately, you and I will have that opportunity soon, and we will continue the discussion. But for today, as far as our audience is concerned, this is about as far as we go before we bring it in for a landing. So thank you so much for your friendship, and thank you for your enterprise and innovation and ideas on this particular project we're working you've
Jim Cockrum 1:10:46
contributed so much to the success of the business here, and so much to the philosophy that we have as an organization has been pulled from the content that you've created. So thank you 100 times more right back. And it's an honor and truly a privilege to be serving you in this the community that you've built. I'm here as a resource for any of them and and is this excited to be on this journey? Maybe we should mention the link one more time for those who want to.
Daniel Lapin 1:11:09
Yeah, that's right, we happy warriors.com. Forward slash 5f like Freddie, 5f coaching, and you'll see quite a lot of information right there.
Jim Cockrum 1:11:23
Looking forward to seeing who gathers. God bless you, my friend,
Daniel Lapin 1:11:27
Jim. We'll talk again soon. Okay, I hope you enjoyed that. I always find value in talking to Jim. And as I said, I always like speaking for his events, because I meet so many people from many different walks of life, including people who've done all kinds of other things, who said to themselves, you know what? I want to be in business. I want to become a business professional. And something that I have spoken with a number of people about recently is that when you're making that jump into business, being committed to excel makes all the difference in the world, and it's a crucial aspect of the coaching world. In other words, when a client works with me. And I don't work with many clients at a time, but when a client works with me, very often, the task is to help the person, help the client achieve excellence, to really go beyond the mundane. And this really means a major change. And it means realizing that the the effort to move from just Okay, from good to really great, it's not huge. The effort doesn't match the result. The result is really tremendous. What I mean by that, you know, a good college athlete can do 100 meters in about 11 seconds. Pretty good, pretty good time for the 100 meter race. But I so much enjoyed to this day I watch the YouTube video of the Jamaican runner Usain Bolt winning the London Olympics in 2012 the 100 meter dash, and he does it in nine and a half seconds. And it's something to watch. You say to yourself, you know, really a big difference between nine and a half seconds and 11 seconds. Well, the difference is that if you do it in 11 seconds, you stay in small Townsville, in the running area for always, if you do it nine and a half seconds, you win the London Olympics. And one and a half seconds is all the difference between good and fantastic, good and great. Think of the United States Postal Service. They get about 97% of their letters and packages to their destination. Which is which is good. I mean, 97% millions of packages. 97% is definitely good, but it's not great. Great is FedEx. FedEx gets 99.6% of their packages to their destinations on time. That's a difference. USPS, so you do 97% that's good. You know, essentially you are the metaphor for mediocrity in the United States of America. Post the post office constantly raising the price of a first class stamp and doing a worse job on delivering it. FedEx is a fantastic company, and you can, you can see the pride of people who work for FedEx compared with the people, mostly who work for the US Postal Service. The difference, again. And is there a big difference between 97% and 99.6% few percentage points? But the result is huge. A good brick layer, you know, I'm fascinated with brick layers. A good brick layer can do 600 bricks a day, you know, on a fairly straightforward, say, a straightforward wall without doors and windows and so on. But a great brick layer does about 900 bricks a day, and again, you say, okay, you know, fine. Is it? Is it? Yeah, the difference is that an A typical four bedroom, 2000 square foot little house. The good brick layer takes 13 weeks to do it right, three months, more than three months. The great brick layer does it in eight weeks. It's a big difference. And so being in business, there are so many things that it's important to understand and and one of them is that you can just push a little harder, but the results you get are massively enhanced. So thank you for being part of the show. I appreciate it, and want to wish you a wonderful week of progress with your five F's, your family, your finance, your faith, your fitness and your friendship. I'm Rabbi. Daniel Lapin, God bless.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
